I am interested in the responses this has brought about. Thank you to everyone taking part - considerably less flame grilling than BK would be happy with.
I agree with James that people may be more willing to follow Hel and Liana's orders because she delegates via mutual friends, in comparison to someone who tries to act as a lone commander (ideally, that won't sound offensive to what Ruth has achieved in doing so). Personally, none of my characters would say no to any of hers for fear of repercussions, be they real or imagined, from her or her network of friends. Perhaps this is not unwished for. It is a method, however, that requires time to establish. What happened when the characters were new?
I also agree that when someone signs up to patrol they should behave as though they are in the military. I do, however, feel that this doesn't happen. Two examples that jump off the top of my head, with names removed to save guilty blushes:
Commander: "Character, come back here." Character: "I'm scouting." *disappears off into distance*
Commander: "Are you going to follow orders?" Character: "I'm not going to follow your orders."
Names available by email on request.
Perhaps doing what someone else wants them to do is not seen as fun, or a heroic thing to do. I don't, however, see any problems when it happens in the tabletop games I play. Possibly because this is due to it having happened organically rather than there having been someone designed to be in charge, and because it is the same people game in, game out. I do plan to play Gerrard in all the low level games I can when he comes out, so if he is put in charge, there may well be a regular commander that could establish familiarity and network with his party. But that's at least three years away, so is conjecture at the moment.
I don't like the concept of one-dimensional guards who order the party to form line every time a threat appears, and agree that someone with a handle on all kinds of fighting tactics will make a better all round commander. However, ironically, the one time I have seen line fighting consistently happen was on the first game I ever played, when we had four shields out of eight characters, and Blaine ordered a shield wall more often than not. The party cleaned house, time after time. Rare, but evidence that shield walls are not an entirely stupid idea.
Skirmishing as a guard is hard work, I'm sure. Picking where you can be most effective where the entire party is scattered over a wide area, those mages are running for their lives, that barbarian is holding off three people but is getting tired, and this marshal is back-footedly parrying like a bastard while that marshal is trying to pick up the scout that got caught with a lucky one, is going to prove difficult. Perhaps scouts aren't the only class who receive very little in-game help from their stats when it comes down to what is required of them.
I think there is definitely a stigma, and that it isn't helped by the current climate. Changing it will be a long and difficult task, and I am not sure why anyone would want to start knowing how long it will take. Maybe starting out with the idea of changing opinion isn't the right way to go - it's too much being a character for other people rather than one for yourself. Whether people are willing to ignore the snide remarks for long enough to establish themselves remains to be seen, but I don't think it is entirely fair for the stigma to be there on character day one, when possibly the player isn't aware of it's reasoning, or even its existence.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2007-04-03 11:25 pm (UTC)I agree with James that people may be more willing to follow Hel and Liana's orders because she delegates via mutual friends, in comparison to someone who tries to act as a lone commander (ideally, that won't sound offensive to what Ruth has achieved in doing so). Personally, none of my characters would say no to any of hers for fear of repercussions, be they real or imagined, from her or her network of friends. Perhaps this is not unwished for.
It is a method, however, that requires time to establish. What happened when the characters were new?
I also agree that when someone signs up to patrol they should behave as though they are in the military. I do, however, feel that this doesn't happen. Two examples that jump off the top of my head, with names removed to save guilty blushes:
Commander: "Character, come back here."
Character: "I'm scouting." *disappears off into distance*
Commander: "Are you going to follow orders?"
Character: "I'm not going to follow your orders."
Names available by email on request.
Perhaps doing what someone else wants them to do is not seen as fun, or a heroic thing to do. I don't, however, see any problems when it happens in the tabletop games I play. Possibly because this is due to it having happened organically rather than there having been someone designed to be in charge, and because it is the same people game in, game out. I do plan to play Gerrard in all the low level games I can when he comes out, so if he is put in charge, there may well be a regular commander that could establish familiarity and network with his party. But that's at least three years away, so is conjecture at the moment.
I don't like the concept of one-dimensional guards who order the party to form line every time a threat appears, and agree that someone with a handle on all kinds of fighting tactics will make a better all round commander. However, ironically, the one time I have seen line fighting consistently happen was on the first game I ever played, when we had four shields out of eight characters, and Blaine ordered a shield wall more often than not. The party cleaned house, time after time. Rare, but evidence that shield walls are not an entirely stupid idea.
Skirmishing as a guard is hard work, I'm sure. Picking where you can be most effective where the entire party is scattered over a wide area, those mages are running for their lives, that barbarian is holding off three people but is getting tired, and this marshal is back-footedly parrying like a bastard while that marshal is trying to pick up the scout that got caught with a lucky one, is going to prove difficult. Perhaps scouts aren't the only class who receive very little in-game help from their stats when it comes down to what is required of them.
I think there is definitely a stigma, and that it isn't helped by the current climate. Changing it will be a long and difficult task, and I am not sure why anyone would want to start knowing how long it will take. Maybe starting out with the idea of changing opinion isn't the right way to go - it's too much being a character for other people rather than one for yourself. Whether people are willing to ignore the snide remarks for long enough to establish themselves remains to be seen, but I don't think it is entirely fair for the stigma to be there on character day one, when possibly the player isn't aware of it's reasoning, or even its existence.