As I'm Not Allowed To Be This Divisive On The Boards...

[magicaddict]

...I'll say it here.

Out of interest, what's it going to take? A broken limb? Someone being knocked unconscious? Brain damage?

Or just someone more influential's eye almost being put out?

We are, as a society, not safe enough with our fighting. We need a strategy to improve it across the board, from the most experienced players to the least, and we need it now. Simply assuming people will know what to do from five minutes of conversation and thirty seconds of practical demonstration, then being shocked and shouting at them when they demonstrate they don't, is not enough. It's being demonstrated over and over again.

I am not willing to wait until someone is permanently blinded before climbing on my soapbox. It's everyone's responsibility, it's everyone's lookout, and positive action needs to be taken, not dragging of feet at the prospect of actually having to do something, or indignance at the idea that you might be part of the problem. I am, and you are too. We all bloody well are. Get over it.

Safety workshops and weapons practice is one idea, and I think it has merit. I also think it should be mandatory until you can demonstrate that with each weapon type, in a range of different situations, you aren't going to have a brain fart that causes someone else to collapse while clutching something important of theirs. I also think that until you can demonstrate this, what right do you have to be swinging what has, over the past twelve months, proven to the world and their spouse to be a weapon perfectly capable of doing really unpleasant damage to the human body when wielded unsafely?

I don't care that I'm crap, I just want to be safe. Sign me up, every day until I am accepted as good enough not to hurt other people.

Anyone else? Any other ideas?

Comments

[helbling.livejournal.com]

3) Not safe? Not using it.
Implement a rule that if you get x (say 3) negative points in a 6 month period for unsafe fighting with the same type of weapon, you can't use that weapon anymore until you've proven you're safe with it at practise sessions. If that happens to be the only weapon your character uses, tough shit.
Issues: Dependant on regular ish practise sessions, and also only a way of dealing with people who are unsafe with weapons, not those who don't take care with terrain or their behaviour around other weapons.

4) More danger, more regularly.
People often don't get out of the way because IC they can take it. Which means more blows landing and being returned. More blows = higher probability of one landing unsafely. Additionally, as we have fewer character deaths from long involved fights nowadays (deaths seem to come a lot from 'whoops, touched the wrong lever!' sort of incidents, not 'took on death knight, death knight won') so when the pressure is on, people feel it more and swings go wild. Have more high pressure situations, more character deaths, more monsters doing stupid levels of damage that people are more worried about STAYING OUT OF THE WAY OF so such an attitude carries over to OOC as well.
Issues: Will lead to more character deaths, and make games distinctly elf-unfriendly, as they've only got the 3 in TL, and those 3 really don't go all that far if you die even just a couple of times in your initial year, and we'll go back to the times when every third character was a barbarian.

[magicaddict.livejournal.com]

I like 1), maybe hold them on Saturdays to get round one of the public transport issues? Further issue there is people start complaining it's their entire weekend taken up on the odd occasion. Well, if that's the alternative to forcibly having none of your weekend taken up (being banned from the game), it might become acceptable.

Not sure about 2) for the reasons you have cited.

I like 3), seems like a great idea. To be proposed for the next AGM?

Not a huge fan of 4), and I've though more about why I don't over the course of the day and I have a more rational and less precious response than previously.

A very large number of characters' stock response to something that is stronger and more capable than them is, unfortunately, to run away. It's used in jest, but is a stark reminder that we're playing a game and that the immersion has just gone out of the window. To buggery with the cause or the people they're fighting on behalf of, the survival instinct is strong enough in most characters that they'll simply turn and run, Earth Merge, Withdraw, Blink etc, and leave it to others to fight it, because they don't want to risk character death.

My opinion is that greater threat wouldn't teach those people to fight safely - it would teach them, even more, not to fight. The same people would die, the same people would survive, and safety wouldn't improve overall (or would only for the demographic that stand their ground).

[helbling.livejournal.com]

To buggery with the cause or the people they're fighting on behalf of, the survival instinct is strong enough in most characters that they'll simply turn and run, Earth Merge, Withdraw, Blink etc, and leave it to others to fight it, because they don't want to risk character death.

Ah, but given the introduction of things like the Wardens and such, a larger proportion of characters can't just run away these days. Or if they do, there needs to be severe IC consequences for such an act. Which is a different debate.

[xanthipe]

Actually, that's a bigger problem - if people aren't allowed to run when the urge takes them, they're more likely to flail and panic.

I don't see the threat level thing actually being of any value - Kobayashi Maru just makes people hack the test. People have to know how to react so when things go horribly wrong they don't flail. They also have to learn that everyone is responsible for everyone's safety, including their own.

Or, you know, we just cut a finger off every time someone causes an injury. That would get it across pretty quickly.

[helbling.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but then we'd potentially have the issue of what happens when they genuinely can't run? Not because of guild restrictions, but because of broken leg/no where to go/ grip can't get out of. At which point, tbf, the monsters should be reading the situation and not pressing if it isn't safe, but a larger precedent of 'X didn't die because engaging their player in combat is too unsafe OOC' is to be avoided.

Yeah - possibly we just need to get them to keep their excitement levels under control, so things like games might be a good one - push their adrenaline levels up by fun, rather than by fear? We could maybe introduce people to Juggerball? Or work out some games where the entire point is to parry and dodge and treat the opponent's weapon like something dangerous to be avoided, rather than an inevitability so hell may as well get it over with *proceeds to lead with head*.

And er, not too sure in the long run fewer fingers would be better for weapon stability, really, however satisfying it may be :P

[magicaddict.livejournal.com]

> Or work out some games where the entire point is to parry and dodge and treat the opponent's weapon like something dangerous to be avoided, rather than an inevitability so hell may as well get it over with *proceeds to lead with head*.


Something like 1-hit circles of treachery with forfeits? Or a duel after which one press-up/sit-up is required for every time you got struck? Something with an embarrassing, I-want-to-avoid-this endpoint, to hammer home how an excellent way to avoid dying (and more efficient than running away to boot) is pointy end strikes bad guy while avoiding bad guy's pointy end striking you?

it gets a little childish, but the message is clear and correct.

[magicaddict.livejournal.com]

Indeed it is, and I don't believe that enough is done to address it. A lot of leeway is given to characters who can rationalise and minimise their actions, rather than a more black and white view of "you ran away, you get in trouble". I would like to see GMs citing the fact more, and subsequently punishing it IC if it is mentioned in reports.

[xanthipe]

If you can find someone willing to run regular practice sessions, I'll be bloody amazed - getting people to do things even when they want to do it is bloody hard work.

[magicaddict.livejournal.com]

Every two weeks? Every month? Every week?

Give me a schedule you'd like to see, and I'll see if I can do it. Or find a group of people who can share it. It might require some kind people to provide crash space on said occasions, however.

[pujaemuss.livejournal.com]

As always, mi casa e su casa.

PJW

[xanthipe]

Currently working out the possible logistics for it, will let you know - it's looking like the day after the wedding I may be running a Combat Safety workshop, then from June onwards doing more full on Combat workshops based around the plan I already sent you.