magicaddict: (Vaex)
Doug Millington-Smith ([personal profile] magicaddict) wrote2006-02-03 03:21 pm

Because Dom Asked So Nicely...

...and because I've been getting more and more angry about it every time I am slapped down, behold what I consider would improve BLADES and larp in general. It's being said here so a) it doesn't go on the official boards and so is only a discussion, b) TheTony doesn't take the regular leave of his normally very reasonable senses and come out with words-to-the-effect-of "Normally I'm very nice, but right now you're citicising, so remember it's my ball and I don't particularly care for your complaining" comment that is rolled out every time someone complains about a rules change (example available on request if the boards go back that far), and c) it's on my LJ, so I can say what I damn well like, and so can you if you wish. All you will do is piss me off - not ruin the club.

It is behind a cut, because not everyone who's friends list this appears on will be interested in it.


Most likely, this will turn into a "let's see how many times we can tell Doug he's wrong" session, so I'm going to cut pretty much loose and issue a standing "I really don't care what you think" to anyone who might disagree with me.

Things I feel I need in order to roleplay better:
1. A comprehensive contemporary history of the Barony, dating back twenty years - Hell, knowing how well the farmers did last week would be nice.
Currently, my parents are aristocrats who have done positively nothing in their lives, because I can't create anything for them to have done. They've never raced a horse (even though Edran is a keen rider), or somewhere there would be records of point-to-point races. They've never had a party (and Juilin has never been to one), because someone would have been sober enough to remember them and that requires backstory. Nothing happened in the Barony last week, because that would require a news service to report it. I can't say anything did, because I'll get sat on for defining the world. If I want, as a freedom priest, to look back over past mission reports for recreational purposes (the same as reading technical journals, as professional scientists tend to do), I can't kick back and enjoy an evening's reading - I have to tell someone else I'm doing it and have them go and get the information for me (if the GM I am asking is disposed to do so).
Ergo, I dread guarding medders because if someone asks "so what do you think of...", or "so what did you do this week?", I am forced to answer "well, nothing really." This, for a seeker of knowledge, I find tantamount to imprisonment. What is the use of being a protector of knowledge if there isn't any bloody knowledge out there to protect, with the exception to the uber-tome of necrodhoom that turns up each week? How can I be interested in current affairs if nothing is happening outside of the patrols? So I can't be interested in current affairs? As a seeker of knowledge? *Dies laughing*.

2. A map of the Barony and how its borders have changed in the past twenty years, for crying out loud. Where do I live? Um...I don't know. Where did Daenaram come from? Um...nowhere in particular. Was his village outside the borders? Couldn't tell you - I only lived there for over two-hundred years. Where did you last take Anneri for dinner? Um...nowhere you've heard of. I don't know where I live - just think about how ridiculous that sounds. I can't tell people about House Fortrayre's wonderful orchards because I don't know they exist. I can't tell them about the view, because I don't know what it is of. Mountains? Pasture? Seashore? Moonscape? HELLOOOOOOO? COMMON SENSE????? Where is the Barony? What does it look like? What are some good night spots in Van Heusen's capital city? What's the first village along the Lannister road called? Where's Lannister?

Before you answer - I DO.

3. People to bother knowing who their character is - I dislike intensely characters who aren't even one-dimensional - who are, to quote Dave, "A walking set of stats". There is no excuse for this - you're too busy are you? Great - I have just oodles of spare time clanking around my schedule. This final year of the PhD lark is a complete doss, you know, and being active in three societies is hardly a crimp on the endless holiday that is my life either. Stop being so bloody arrogant and claiming that you are magnitudes busier than I am. It just isn't true.


Things I feel I want in order to roleplay better:
1. People who want to roleplay to putting time into creating their character - at least two thousand words worth. It's not hard to give them more than a name - a height, build (no - they do not need to look like you), gender, brief history and names of parents. It's amazing how quickly the words fly on to the page if people would bother to try - the creative talent present in BLADES is easily high enough for just about everyone present to do so. If people had to submit a couple of thousand words of backstory and a family tree of at least one generation, they might be committed enough to dedicate themselves in a way that holds me back when they don't. I'm tired of having my wings clipped because of other people's indolence - and the fact that I am saying that confirms just how indolent some people are.

2. A comprehensive history of the Kingdom of Exiles, since its inception (or at least five hundred years back) - if you want to tell me that there are no notaries, librarians or historians in the Barony, I will tell you that your world is so unreasonable as to be unplayable. What next? Gravity works in reverse? Water doesn't contain hydrogen? These are as fundamental concepts as history - if there is a now, there was a then, and someone will be documenting it. This is the way the world works. Get over it. While going all the way back is a luxury, it would be nice to see how the world has developed, rather than all those knowledgable Seekers not knowing anything about what happened fifty years ago. Mass amnesia, anyone?

3. Players to realise that their characters are important, but not that important. Why should story, or plot, or the world, end where they cannot touch it? How can te world stop moving during time out? How up yourselves are you people to assume the only people in the world of TL who matter or who can change the world are the ones being embodied by people every Sunday afternoon? I am sure that as soon as they game finishes every Sunday evening, the rest of the Barony populace freezes in place, waiting for the next exciting installment of arrogant sods who they have never met going out and saving their asses from things they don't understand. I'm sure the Barony patrols are viewed as heros by people they don't even know exist. I'm certain of it.

4. People who come up with original plot not being ignored in favour of parodying the latest film release, or because of who they are, or because of what people's opinions of their past larps are, or because someone who has been in the club longer has come up with something else. Rest assured I will never be submitting anything plot-related to any part of this society ever again. Go ahead - jump for joy. You got your wish. I was clearly misinformed in thinking I should ever try to write something that people might find engaging and stimulating, or that would be left alone. I obviously haven't been here long enough for that to be the case, as we all know that how long you have been there is the only important thing in deciding how reasonable your suggestions are. Larp - one of the few true gerontocracies left in the world.

5. How long you have been here ceasing to be the limiting factor in deciding what you are allowed to do.
It's strange, isn't it, that no-one has tried to change, alter or speak up against the inception of "optional" insignia for the patrolees. If Juilin came out wearing anything other than the tree, he shouldn't get a second glance, but he would, and undoubtedly people would think it was sour graps on my part not to be joining in. Think how hurtful I found the dissection of all I had been asked to create by the committee, then, that had been vetted and okayed by them. Nope, the longer standing members of the society, who aren't even full members so somewhow think themselves above the ones who are actually answerable to the university (who have to do the work to ensure we get to canvas on the parade and hire at the socs fair next year and actually get a new intake come october), decided that they weren't going to allow it to pass. So it didn't. I fucking hate it.

No. I don't have a low opinion of you. I have a low opinion of your opinion of me.


Damn. That felt good. Cue the flaming, the patting the upstart youngster on the head and the grumpy hurrumphs of "who's he think he is?" I couldn't give a flying buttmonkey what you think.

The programs are here. They charged me more than expected and used slightly less high-quality paper. I don't care - I won't be using them again because I won't be having anything further to do with publicity for anything that might use them. Ever. Suffice to say that more or less ands my commitments to publicise the show, and leaves me with a total of nine days left to survive and not kill someone.

The show itself is still a bad joke in a box.

The two leading roles, so cast because one of them does a radio show with the casting director and the other one wears her clothes (me? Bitter? nah...), are suddenly realising that they actually have quite a lot of lines, and requiring a prompt for every other one of them doesn't bode well with less than a week to go until we open. Pay attention and stop finding everything so funny - you aren't on the village green now.
The supposedly outstanding band is surprisingly good - for people who haven't been together a week. This means they sound like a crap band who have been together for a month.
The costume debacle seems to have been forgotten by everyone, so come tomorrow's tech when everyone suddenly realises they don't have this, or that and blames backstage because it's clearly their fault, there will be an almighty argument and someone more important might walk out. Like a member of the cast.
Helen wants us to finish the techs by eight at the latest each night. *Dies laughing again*. Let her try to argue people round to that if she wants. We'll be there until BTS are good and ready, probably gone midnight. If we run unbelievably smoothly, we might get done by then, but the day that a tech runs smoothly is the day that Satan...does something involving ice.

The Dow meeting went really quite well - more definite targets to head towards, more crystal structures got, all looking good, really.
It looks as if I am heading to San Francisco come September (well...damn. I suppose that'll have to do), the only crimp on which is the fact that I attend my cousin's wedding not two days after it finishes. Thankfully the parents had booked hotel rooms for us on the previous evening (we're staying down in London rather than driving there and back on the same day) so I can fly straight into London and go to sleep for the rest of the day. Might even work.

Right. End of day. Very little done but I have another crystal structure. That'll supplant work on any day of the week.

Re: 2000 words

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I like twenty questions. Really good idea, but if they aren't interested in writing a character backplot, will they be interested in playing 20Q in the character gen session?

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
1. I will - correction, I would, if I were to ever be allowed near a plotstick again.

2. I will - correction, I would, if I were to ever be allowed near a plotstick again.

3. A paragraph would be a start - this year, we were asked for 250 words absolute maximum. I struggled to fit Juilin into that, before I decided not to bother writing out any more.
If someone is incapable of roleplaying, what are they doing wanting to be in a roleplay club? Surely they can take up boxing, martial arts or re-enactment as easily (or easier) than larp?

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
1. I can't make a history for myself without defining at least some history. People gloss over the bits they define by saying it isn't really, but it's surprising how much anything anyone says, at all, defins the world. The only way not to have affected anything is to have been born and raised on a different plane and so cannot have had any interaction with anyone else.
To take Orchid as an example (Adrian - I am using him because he has been used before. I am not, in any way, saying I dislike your backplot, indeed I like it and wish there were more. If you want me to stop, mail me and I'll delete this), he went to Springs' Pathfinder Academy. Lo and behold, Springs existed, there is a building somewhere and other people went to it. He has defined part of the world. It affects me because I now have to rationalise to myself why any scout I would ever bring out wouldn't have gone to Springs' academy/how much they know about it/if they swap lecturers/teachers etc. It's defining my world, but the difference is, I don't mind. I gives me something to rest on.

2. I will - correction, I would, if I were to ever be allowed near a plotstick again.

3. God forbid that anything should happen in the Barony without someone having done it/seen it/heard of it/been intimately associated with it. The world is currently entirely static. That is not down to the plot team not moving it along, it's down to people getting offended if they do.

4. Nope - I got stung too many times. Look how many people sing and dance with relieved faces while I'm not around for corroboration.
The committee don't get to do anything without the say so of the more experienced people, who have the power of veto (tyranny by majority by any other name) over any decision they make. Take this years NPCs as an example.

5. My only reason for not wearing the tree would be for OOC reasoning, so rather than be as petty as that, I'm wearing nothing (well, was wearing nothing. I probably won't be playing a character in this system again), but might still buy one.

Comments, as per the disclaimer on my info page, are welcomed with open arms. I reserve the right, as it is my journal, to agree, disagree or ignore as is my wont. I don't agree with some of what you said - you are as equally free to agree/disagree/ignore as is yours.

[identity profile] drabbit.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Touche.

Re: 2000 words

[identity profile] drabbit.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
20 Questions can be very quick and easy to answer. Now if you're interested, I can point you to a question set in the 100's, if not couple of 1000, at roleplaying.com

[identity profile] drabbit.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
3. All 3 of those hobbies are aimed at perfecting something. Re-enactors tend to be serious about costume detail, as the most minor, whilst the others are actual disciplines. Lrp is about having fun, and if I can help you to have more without impacting on my own (such as for example creating plots that persecu... entertain Freedom priests) then I'd love to.

So new question - you're not having fun: what, putting aside briefly the current discussion/war on character depth and interaction, can be done to make the game more fun? What other aspects of the game than character interaction do you enjoy which could be improved or introduced more?

[identity profile] vanthor-zq.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)
1 & 2: Good lad, I know where I have to go to recruit my plot teams now....

3: 250 words maximum? Bless whoever thought that up. I would have allowed guidelines with at least two examples of good histories of different length. Ah well.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Scorn, you think that was scorn? With the NPC backgrounds I read them twice, I considered them, I formed opinions of what could be improved, re-read them, and then I provided those opinions. I did however do so in the wrong forum, a mistake I regret.

I emailed my support for them to the committee, requesting they be modified, but kept. Not big edits just minor rewording here and there, along the lines of 'In the shire of XXXX...'.

My problem was that there were sentences worded in such a way, often minor additions that neither added nor took away from the story, that changed the feel of them from 'What this person did. To what everyone did.'. Yes I felt I could not fit my character into the world that was suggested, but never did I think it would stop me playing my character.

The reason why the NPC backgrounds were pulled is because you requested them to be. How you chose to react to critism of your work is up to you.

Re: comments

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:45 pm (UTC)(link)
1)You want reports from famous heroes of the Temple of Freedom they are there on Marcus' site signed by people named Carabas and Gish.

2)Juilin came from where you wanted him to come from, does whatever you think he should in the world he lives. Why is it all or nothing? Why must Juilin have a precisely defined world in which to exist, or have no existance?

1)No one should have to write 2000 words if they don't want to, especially not just to start. You must get them hooked first, and if they don't yet know how to roleplay you must then guide them so they get better, help them get kit and form characters. Perhaps after a year or for their second character they could be asked to write more, to define more, but let them learn to walk before asking them to hurdle.

Re: Part 1

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)
You have a timescale 100 years. Look at the larps that were run especially the early ones. The kingdom is still growing learning and finding its legs.

You can define Juilin without defining the world for other people. Lot's of other people do it all the time, and have done so for many years in this system. No one gets it perfect, which is why people offer advise and suggestions - if you cannot take a suggesstion without believing it to be a command, complaint or insult how do you expect the quality of your creations to improve and grow? Just because you take offense doesn't mean everyone else does.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
2. But would you let anyone else help, would you dicuss it and develop it with other people first? Would there be room for new ideas, for larps to create and add in to the histories of the world?

If the answers aren't yes, then you wouldn't be writing the history of the TL world, you'd be righting your own piece of fiction.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
'So, in order that everyone is able to do as they wish with their backplots, I can't?'

The only thing that stops you doing whatever you want with your back plots is you. If you can't have a backplot without someone elses map to begin it in, someone else storys to base it on, if you can't find a place in the avialable creative possibilities to carve a niche, with out carving up other peoples or carving out from theres, perhaps you need to rethink your approach.

'There is nothing in his backplot that any other priest has to have followed.'

And there wouldn't have been the impression there was if you had written it in different ways.

Re: Part 2 I ran out of characters

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
If it's not enjoyable is the problem the world, the setting, the system, or the way you approach it?

'Tree as an insignia, people will think I'm being a sourpuss'. People will think your being a sourpuss if you act like a sourpuss.

Surely other people would share your complaints if it was just the world? Surely people wouldn't be doing it still 8 years later?

Honestly it's long ago so I don't entirely remember. It's interesting that even now though Daenaram's back plot didn't agree with the setting you played it in: 'It was fairly common knowledge that in several years, attempts were to be made to expand the Kingdom through the formation of a new Barony, presided over by one Sc’ara Fo’uld.' wasn't the case in the world Ryan made. My impression from the time is that you sat down and wrote a story that you were entitled to do, that at somepoint your story no longer matched the setting it was in, and broke the some of the basic downtime rules - such as not been able to create NPC's that your character gain from their connection to- , and it came to Ryan's attention and he took the Ryan style solution to the problem he recieved. The day you wrote in gypsies you made a mistake. How the mistake was handled may not have been the best approach, but it happened.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
The world isn't static it changes and grows with every single larp. Orc tribes come and go, villages get settled and wiped out, peoples are met, enemies are made. Just because we have a live roleplay club in which we want to roleplay live as there things happen doesn't mean that nothing happens at all. What's the point in a world where everything happens in ways we can't experience except by proxy.

Plots can be long and complex, can span several years and games, can affect the world on downtime boards changing it and shaping it. However any plot that happens purely on downtime boards, has affected nothing.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:26 am (UTC)(link)
3. 250 word maximum I think were there because the committee didn't want a novels worth of back story to work their way through. Guideline would have been a good idea though.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 10:59 am (UTC)(link)
Here's an alternate idea:

You write up Juilin's backplot in full. Post it here or as an LJ post. Let people read it and comment. Rewrite it to incorporate the comments and suggestions. Repeat the process. At this point you should theoretically have a back plot that people shouldn't have complaints about. Then see what you think of it - perhaps you'll end up with a backplot thats exactly what you want, and perhaps we'll better understand everyones view points about these things, and make it better for everyone, including those club members yet to join.

If you want I'll rewrite one of my characters back storys in the same way, and we can compare the responses and the outcomes.

Think of it as an experiment in writing. So are you game?

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 11:09 am (UTC)(link)
'I can't make a history for myself without defining at least some history.'

That's never the problem. If I haven't made this clear in the past then I'll try again.

As soon as anyone writes a backplot they define the world, they've created more characters in it for the very least, they may well have created villages and minor events as well. It's when a backstory is written in such a way, that affects everyone and future limits what they can do then theres a problem. Or when a backstory is contray to the world theres a problem (e.g. My father was a nice drow necromancer, who lived in the village of elven priests). Or when it defines something that gives your character an egde theres a problem (e.g. My uncle is wealthy Lord who gives me 20 groats every week). Theres no harm in having 20 different villages called Cradle View, in fact it might even make for funny roleplay, but to take an extreme example when someone writes a backplot that says '[Character name] was born in [town] the one population centre in the entire world', you get a problem, because they everyone must have come from [town] or from outside the world. It's the difference between 'During the later stages of his training, when each Searcher was looking for a deity to devote themselves to' and 'During the later stages of his training when Tobin was looking for a deity to devote himself to'. The story is the same, the meaning is the same, but now it affects Tobin not everyone.

That's the issue, not defining the world itself. If people accept guidance and advice and change things before they happen too early then the issue can be resolved with the minimum of mess.

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. I did think it was scorn. I think you did as well.

I did not request them to be pulled. I removed my involvement from them so any further flaming could be directed at the committee rather than me. I repeat, I did not request them to be pulled.

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:56 pm (UTC)(link)
My approach is the only one I know. If I need everyone's helpt to tweak, change and nudge my backgrounds, I might as well have them write it for me.
I can't write an inert backplot. I just can't. I haven't got the skills that other people have, and I'd rather not have to be reliant on everyone else to provide them for me.

You mean, had it written it in your style. I'm afraid I'm not as good as that, and had to write it in mine - as I said, it's the only one I know.

Re: Part 1

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Because I like my creations the way they are, rather then being mutilated by other people sticking their oar in where it isn't particularly wanted.
I can't remember ever having tried to suggest changing someone's character or their background, because I think doing so is really insulting the person. Regardless of whether they are offended or not, I don't like it, so I don't do it. Just because everyone else doesn't take offense doesn't mean I won't either.

Re: Part 2 I ran out of characters

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:00 pm (UTC)(link)
It's my approach. I am fully aware of that. I don't like things the way they are, and it isn't going to change. Ergo, I'm not going to play characters any more - monsters don't need backplot.

No-one told me that it wasn't. Again. I wasn't given any definition with which to write, so I came up with it myself. And then was told it was wrong. How about that.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't feel that was scorn. Believe me scorn would have been much harsher. However, in hindsight I do realise that should have relaised yoy would have taken it that way, based on your past reactions. However, how you take critism of you work it up to you.

'I repeat, I did not request them to be pulled.'

Then who did?

Re: 2000 words

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I would be, if for nothing other than tabletop characters. I'd like to develeop my Exalted guy a little further away from my Amber guy - they're remarkably similar at the moment, and I don't like that.

Re: comments

[identity profile] magicaddict.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
1. Do you think I haven't read those already? Are those the only two?

2. Because any time I have to stop because I'm hitting a grey area, the walls just get closer to me. There are so many grey areas I can't stray into that I might as well stand still.


1. All of this years characters who write reports on a regular basis have written two thousand words already. I write around fifteen hundred per report. I maintain that it isn't a difficult number of words to come out with if you relaxedly sit down with your drink of choice, good music playing and a bored mind for an afternoon.

[identity profile] same-difference.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
What do you mean by 'inert' in this instance?

No I don't mean had I written in my style. I certianly don't think that writing in someones else style is something any person can really do. It's their work they will always have their own style, their own personalities influence on it.

Still again what is with the absolutes? Why is it written only by you, or written by someone else? How many works of literature are purely written by one person without any input and suggestions by others?

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