magicaddict | Because Dom Asked So Nicely...

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Because Dom Asked So Nicely...

...and because I've been getting more and more angry about it every time I am slapped down, behold what I consider would improve BLADES and larp in general. It's being said here so a) it doesn't go on the official boards and so is only a discussion, b) TheTony doesn't take the regular leave of his normally very reasonable senses and come out with words-to-the-effect-of "Normally I'm very nice, but right now you're citicising, so remember it's my ball and I don't particularly care for your complaining" comment that is rolled out every time someone complains about a rules change (example available on request if the boards go back that far), and c) it's on my LJ, so I can say what I damn well like, and so can you if you wish. All you will do is piss me off - not ruin the club.

It is behind a cut, because not everyone who's friends list this appears on will be interested in it.

Most likely, this will turn into a "let's see how many times we can tell Doug he's wrong" session, so I'm going to cut pretty much loose and issue a standing "I really don't care what you think" to anyone who might disagree with me.

Things I feel I need in order to roleplay better:
1. A comprehensive contemporary history of the Barony, dating back twenty years - Hell, knowing how well the farmers did last week would be nice.
Currently, my parents are aristocrats who have done positively nothing in their lives, because I can't create anything for them to have done. They've never raced a horse (even though Edran is a keen rider), or somewhere there would be records of point-to-point races. They've never had a party (and Juilin has never been to one), because someone would have been sober enough to remember them and that requires backstory. Nothing happened in the Barony last week, because that would require a news service to report it. I can't say anything did, because I'll get sat on for defining the world. If I want, as a freedom priest, to look back over past mission reports for recreational purposes (the same as reading technical journals, as professional scientists tend to do), I can't kick back and enjoy an evening's reading - I have to tell someone else I'm doing it and have them go and get the information for me (if the GM I am asking is disposed to do so).
Ergo, I dread guarding medders because if someone asks "so what do you think of...", or "so what did you do this week?", I am forced to answer "well, nothing really." This, for a seeker of knowledge, I find tantamount to imprisonment. What is the use of being a protector of knowledge if there isn't any bloody knowledge out there to protect, with the exception to the uber-tome of necrodhoom that turns up each week? How can I be interested in current affairs if nothing is happening outside of the patrols? So I can't be interested in current affairs? As a seeker of knowledge? *Dies laughing*.

2. A map of the Barony and how its borders have changed in the past twenty years, for crying out loud. Where do I live? Um...I don't know. Where did Daenaram come from? Um...nowhere in particular. Was his village outside the borders? Couldn't tell you - I only lived there for over two-hundred years. Where did you last take Anneri for dinner? Um...nowhere you've heard of. I don't know where I live - just think about how ridiculous that sounds. I can't tell people about House Fortrayre's wonderful orchards because I don't know they exist. I can't tell them about the view, because I don't know what it is of. Mountains? Pasture? Seashore? Moonscape? HELLOOOOOOO? COMMON SENSE????? Where is the Barony? What does it look like? What are some good night spots in Van Heusen's capital city? What's the first village along the Lannister road called? Where's Lannister?

Before you answer - I DO.

3. People to bother knowing who their character is - I dislike intensely characters who aren't even one-dimensional - who are, to quote Dave, "A walking set of stats". There is no excuse for this - you're too busy are you? Great - I have just oodles of spare time clanking around my schedule. This final year of the PhD lark is a complete doss, you know, and being active in three societies is hardly a crimp on the endless holiday that is my life either. Stop being so bloody arrogant and claiming that you are magnitudes busier than I am. It just isn't true.

Things I feel I want in order to roleplay better:
1. People who want to roleplay to putting time into creating their character - at least two thousand words worth. It's not hard to give them more than a name - a height, build (no - they do not need to look like you), gender, brief history and names of parents. It's amazing how quickly the words fly on to the page if people would bother to try - the creative talent present in BLADES is easily high enough for just about everyone present to do so. If people had to submit a couple of thousand words of backstory and a family tree of at least one generation, they might be committed enough to dedicate themselves in a way that holds me back when they don't. I'm tired of having my wings clipped because of other people's indolence - and the fact that I am saying that confirms just how indolent some people are.

2. A comprehensive history of the Kingdom of Exiles, since its inception (or at least five hundred years back) - if you want to tell me that there are no notaries, librarians or historians in the Barony, I will tell you that your world is so unreasonable as to be unplayable. What next? Gravity works in reverse? Water doesn't contain hydrogen? These are as fundamental concepts as history - if there is a now, there was a then, and someone will be documenting it. This is the way the world works. Get over it. While going all the way back is a luxury, it would be nice to see how the world has developed, rather than all those knowledgable Seekers not knowing anything about what happened fifty years ago. Mass amnesia, anyone?

3. Players to realise that their characters are important, but not that important. Why should story, or plot, or the world, end where they cannot touch it? How can te world stop moving during time out? How up yourselves are you people to assume the only people in the world of TL who matter or who can change the world are the ones being embodied by people every Sunday afternoon? I am sure that as soon as they game finishes every Sunday evening, the rest of the Barony populace freezes in place, waiting for the next exciting installment of arrogant sods who they have never met going out and saving their asses from things they don't understand. I'm sure the Barony patrols are viewed as heros by people they don't even know exist. I'm certain of it.

4. People who come up with original plot not being ignored in favour of parodying the latest film release, or because of who they are, or because of what people's opinions of their past larps are, or because someone who has been in the club longer has come up with something else. Rest assured I will never be submitting anything plot-related to any part of this society ever again. Go ahead - jump for joy. You got your wish. I was clearly misinformed in thinking I should ever try to write something that people might find engaging and stimulating, or that would be left alone. I obviously haven't been here long enough for that to be the case, as we all know that how long you have been there is the only important thing in deciding how reasonable your suggestions are. Larp - one of the few true gerontocracies left in the world.

5. How long you have been here ceasing to be the limiting factor in deciding what you are allowed to do.
It's strange, isn't it, that no-one has tried to change, alter or speak up against the inception of "optional" insignia for the patrolees. If Juilin came out wearing anything other than the tree, he shouldn't get a second glance, but he would, and undoubtedly people would think it was sour graps on my part not to be joining in. Think how hurtful I found the dissection of all I had been asked to create by the committee, then, that had been vetted and okayed by them. Nope, the longer standing members of the society, who aren't even full members so somewhow think themselves above the ones who are actually answerable to the university (who have to do the work to ensure we get to canvas on the parade and hire at the socs fair next year and actually get a new intake come october), decided that they weren't going to allow it to pass. So it didn't. I fucking hate it.

No. I don't have a low opinion of you. I have a low opinion of your opinion of me.

Damn. That felt good. Cue the flaming, the patting the upstart youngster on the head and the grumpy hurrumphs of "who's he think he is?" I couldn't give a flying buttmonkey what you think.

The programs are here. They charged me more than expected and used slightly less high-quality paper. I don't care - I won't be using them again because I won't be having anything further to do with publicity for anything that might use them. Ever. Suffice to say that more or less ands my commitments to publicise the show, and leaves me with a total of nine days left to survive and not kill someone.

The show itself is still a bad joke in a box.

The two leading roles, so cast because one of them does a radio show with the casting director and the other one wears her clothes (me? Bitter? nah...), are suddenly realising that they actually have quite a lot of lines, and requiring a prompt for every other one of them doesn't bode well with less than a week to go until we open. Pay attention and stop finding everything so funny - you aren't on the village green now.
The supposedly outstanding band is surprisingly good - for people who haven't been together a week. This means they sound like a crap band who have been together for a month.
The costume debacle seems to have been forgotten by everyone, so come tomorrow's tech when everyone suddenly realises they don't have this, or that and blames backstage because it's clearly their fault, there will be an almighty argument and someone more important might walk out. Like a member of the cast.
Helen wants us to finish the techs by eight at the latest each night. *Dies laughing again*. Let her try to argue people round to that if she wants. We'll be there until BTS are good and ready, probably gone midnight. If we run unbelievably smoothly, we might get done by then, but the day that a tech runs smoothly is the day that Satan...does something involving ice.

The Dow meeting went really quite well - more definite targets to head towards, more crystal structures got, all looking good, really.
It looks as if I am heading to San Francisco come September (well...damn. I suppose that'll have to do), the only crimp on which is the fact that I attend my cousin's wedding not two days after it finishes. Thankfully the parents had booked hotel rooms for us on the previous evening (we're staying down in London rather than driving there and back on the same day) so I can fly straight into London and go to sleep for the rest of the day. Might even work.

Right. End of day. Very little done but I have another crystal structure. That'll supplant work on any day of the week.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Wow, San Francisco :D That sounds wonderful!
I hope you enjoy it, and don't have to work too hard while you're out there.

let's see how many times we can tell Doug he's wrong
Doug, you're wrong. That makes one person at least. ;) I don't know why, but I just wanted to be the first to say it. :D

On a serious note though, having only been to TL once as a monster, I have no real authority to speak on this one, but the points that you outline make a lot of sense, regardless of system.

The only one I would disagree with to an extent is the one about is the 'people not knowing who their character is,' and should have to write a 2000 word background, minimum. I don't know how TL works that well, but I know how the other systems I play work, and I know that I devote a lot more of my time to LARPing, writing up LARP stuff etc than most of my group put together, as its something I enjoy, whereas other members of the group prefer to spend their free time doing something else, and just want to turn up at the weekend and get into it, no writing etc.

Most of our group's background is basically done by me or Belly pinning them down for about 20 minutes, getting the details off them, writing them up ourselves and then giving them back to okay.

What I really DON'T agree with is people that are, as you say, playing themselves, only with a set of stats, then trying to play a main role in the plot / system etc as themselves under a different name in a fantasy setting.

Hmm... I'd like to comment, very much, but don't want to be seen as attacking when I'm not agreeing...

I shall risk comment, as much as I can, and hope you will give me the benefit of the doubt.

The problem that I see coming up between yourself and a large chunk of the club repeatedly is when you say "comprehensive map". No one has grounds to really object, though they would of course ;) , to a map that says "mountains up north, plains down south, huge Barony border, Lannister on this bit of border, Bogglehampton in this area, ish, and loads of room for new villages and stuff", but when you say "comprehensive" people see the possibility of making up a new village to put a completely different game in shrinking away. A chunk of the club sees a threat to not just their creativity, but also to the creativity of future club members. Where did Darren conjure Earl Grey from? Hard to say, though we've got some good theories.

I have come to believe this is the nubbin of every disagreement you seem to have with the club as an entity - when you give a background or a description, it feels that you don't just define how your characters life went, you define how everyone's characters lives go if they do that kind of thing/are that class.

Take for example Pathfinder Orchid, who went to Pathfinder Academy. (this is not a criticism of that player either, just an example) Pathfinder Academy? What's that? say several older Pathfinders to other PCs questions, and look a bit daft in the process. Now, if Orchid had been to a Pathfinder Academy in the town of Torn, founded by Pathfinder OverCaptain Springs on her retirement five years ago, of which Orchid is one of the first graduating or close to graduating years, then Orchid has his Pathfinder training backplot, but nobody else has to have it either. And the best bit is that anyone else can have it! A brief word with Adrian and bingo - another graduate from Springs Pathfinder Academy. Meanwhile, Pathfinders like Kendal can blissfully carry on, having been given a sword and shoved towards the Barony's enemies.

Which is what happened with your npcs, who were all beautifully crafted, however most of them told us how the entirety of their area of PCdom worked, albeit sometimes in very subtle ways.

Looking from my own stand point, I want to retain the option of one day having a Freedom priest whose temple raised him to believe drink, drugs, the opposite sex and strong food addle the brain and destroy thought and knowledge, so they practise abstinence. However, if Tobin Whitt's background is established, it's underlying statement says that there are no Temple of Freedom priests in the Barony who think that way.

Right that's the end of my serious comment seeking discussion and a hope of mutual communication for now. Or ignore me - I can live with that.

My only other comment will be taken back to my journal shortly as I don't want to put it here - it's not part of a discussion.

This is merely an initial response a proper response will take some time to carefully produce. It's more a collection of thoughts both mine and things for you to think about if you want. In order to have a reasoned conversation and dicussion with you about this (something I do want to do), I want to understand as much as your view as possible so I can better relate my ideas and opinions to you. So I pose here some thoughts and questions just to be considered, I appreciate any time you can spare on considering them and in writing responses. I have intentionally avoiding saying you are wrong where possible because that doesn't achieve anything, in the same way I hope you can care about my opinion so that we can better understand each other, give us option to change each others opinions and avoid misunderstanding and arguments.

So to start, here's the history of the system from the rules:

'About 100 years ago, the surviving members of a rebellion against The hierarchy crossed the Last Sea, and formed the small Kingdom of Exiles. The Kingdom is surrounded on all sides by wilderness filled with savage monsters and organised tribes. When they arrived, the exiles found evidence of civilization in the form of ruins and destroyed towns and cities. They were also attacked by two tribes, who called themselves the 1st Dragon Riders and the 8th Fox Scouts. The attacks were beaten off, helped by the fact that the Dragon Riders and the Fox Scouts started fighting amongst themselves when they discovered each others presence. From prisoners and research amongst
the ruins, scholars discovered that both groups were from a race of men who called themselves the Hassani. The Hassani had built up a large civilisation covering an unknown but large area, but destroyed themselves in a massive civil war. All that’s left are the ruins of their cities and groups descended from the armies which fought,and still fight today.'

I post this for one main reason. How much more detail than this do you need and how much more detail do you want? How accurate this now is I don't know, I know I have run games that don't fit into the history's before myself, but mistakes are made. This is history of the world as given to us so what's missing?

With regards to maps, this has been dicussed a lot by people for many hours and in large groups. Conclusions were made from these discussions, that have since gone on to alter and shape peoples' opinions about the nature of the world and what it needs. I assume you were aware that people must have talked about this before, so how much have you asked about it? Would you be happy with a map consisting of expanding circles of field, followed by forest, followed by valleys? Have you ever sat down, noted all the parts of the world defined in games and tried to convert them into a rough sketch map? Do you understand the need of always having a bit more unlarped border as untapped design space?

On some of what you have done I will say that I for one have felt, to quote [info]drabbit, that 'when you give a background or a description, it feels that you don't just define how your characters life went, you define how everyone's characters lives go if they do that kind of thing/are that class'. There are these little details, that seem to concrete stuff for everyone, the bit that takes it from this saying this is a bit of our world, to saying this is the world. So in order to better understand the why, what do you gain from these details, and what do you miss in not having them?

There are times, occasionally not always, in things you have posted on your LJ and about your characters that give the impression, that there not so much roleplayed as acted. In the sense that there future progression is so detailed in your mind, that the behaviour of your character is preset, so there is no chance for it to grow and develop in the enviroments surrounding it. This may well not be the case, but if you have already decided how long you intend to keep a character, what they will try and do and achieve in 20-40 ranks time before you have even played them the first time, aren't you giving up a chance to explore and enjoy a character in way you never expected? Much the same way as writers often describe how their character pulled the author through the story, and solved those uncertainities of plots because who they are and how they reacted has grown from the events surrounding them. We as players learn about our characters as they react to the situations they find, our characters may be guided in certain decisions and certain directions by our desires, but isn't it fascinating to see how they got to those points, and the choices they make in doing so?

The 'insignia' really are optional (ok, so this is saying your wrong), in fact my characters have even commented they don't like them. Seriously, no one will really care if you or don't use them (except for [Bad username in LJ tag] as he's trying to sell them). Perhaps this is why no one complained, because no one felt constrained into using them. Not everything is optional, but very little that isn't, isn't in the rules.

Lastly, and I preface this by saying that I'm aware that this may cause offense and revisit old complaints but I feel it necessary to ask. I apologise because I dislike causing offence, especially in conversations of this nature, however I feel I would benefit from knowing so I take the risk. In Scara'folds barony you were in a subset of the world specifically created to free the designer from the constraints of the worlds past history. Your were given a world with a simple, yet precise description, and yet you told story's about your character that seemed to take no consideration of the world they were in to the extent they directly contradicted some parts of the nature of this sub-world. Do you now in hindsight understand what mistake you made? Do you believe you made a mistake? Do you understand how much of an effect those actions have had in the way you future actions have been interpretted?

Again these are just thought and ideas, designed to develop the discussion space, by presenting alternate views and ideas about the things at hand. Thank you again for reading this and your response.

usual disclaimers apply. My opinions are

1) we've got at least eight years, not twenty. we don't need any more, so we don't have any more.
2) maps. we can draw one if you'd like. but it will be highlands in north, amazons in south kinda thing. we don't need any more, so we don't have any more.

1) two thousand words? TWO THOUSAND WORDS? how cruel do you want to be to the dyslexics, stutters or people new to roleplay? as a club that has had to rely on new blood each year, you want to slash the arteries?
2) there is no comprehensive history back 500 years. Only the last hundred years has there been a temple of freedom. Each area and village (which was around before the kingdom formed) has their own history, but no comprehensive history. a generalised world timeline? good idea.
3) agreed.
4) was my last larp chosen over another? and it was a book parody, not a film.
5) it's not how long you've been in the club, it's what you've done so far and how you've done it. I've been larping about as long as PeteW, for example. But run more larps. some bad some good, improved a few things, and now when i ask to run larps, committees often say yes. You'd have to ask them why. PeteW hasn't got as much GMing experience, so i doubt if he'd get the same response.

as for the insignia, i'd brotched the subject with the committee in the summer, they'd agreed in principle, i drew up some designs, and then asked peoples opinions on the designs. I changed some of the designs based on that, and then made a few samples. Which people then bought.

i never got to read your suggested NPC back histories, but from what i gather, they tried to define a few things about the Barony and the Kingdom. which contradicted old character backgrounds and old larps. and instead of a compremise, the whole thing was dropped. I'm sure most of it could have been saved with the opening disclaimer of .... in the shire of XXXX ....,

making them less sweeping statements.

hopefully next years committee aren't scared off getting something written to base the larps off.

So, in order that everyone is able to do as they wish with their backplots, I can't?

In order that everyone can come from where they came from, I can't have come from anywhere? Who is to say Torn exists? What if my home village was called Torn, but was somewhere else? Wouldn't that be overly defining my world in order to preserve someone else's? Where's the difference? Yet others are allowed to, and I'm not.

I am left feeling like the kid in South Park who didn't get a football helmet because there weren't enough to go around, and when he said it wasn't fair on him, Chef replied "but if I gave you one, it wouldn't be fair on anyone else, would it?"

Because Tobin is a wine, women and song freedom priest, all other freedom priests have to be the same? Eh? There is nothing in his backplot that any other priest has to have followed. If I haven't got to use the insignia, you haven't got to use the backplot, yet you feel compelled to, as I do the insignia, because it was supplied for use.

Shoulfn't have to - the only real concern will be staying awake during the lectures. I'd be getting some sightseeing time in as well, so it wouldn't always be chemistry - the football season would be starting, and I would love to catch a game if I could.

1) So, I can't read the mission reports of famous heroes of the Temple of Freedom, because as far as you're concerned, we don't need them, so they don't actually exist IC. Thanks to there being no history, I don't even know who the famous heroes of the ToF are.
2) So where actually do I come from? Or do I not? Did Juilin miraculously fade into existence from nowhere just before we timed in for the first game?
Wait a minute, I'm asking the wrong person. Hang on, I'll just go and change my backplot to match.

1) What are you saying about dyslexics, stutterers and people new to roleplay? It sounds like you're saying they haven't got the ability to write two thousand words. I don't know what you are, but I'm a stutterer and I find that quite offensive. You don't need to talk to type.
If you're dyslexic, does it mean you don't have creative ideas and so you need never to flesh out your character by knowing more about them? Must all dyslexics play one-dimensional walking stats because they haven't the ability to write? I'll leave my opinion of that unsaid, but suffice to say I think it smells bad and comes from the ass of male cows.
2) No-one thought to keep records of family trees or royal lineage? Say what??? What kind of blithering incompetents are the people in this Barony? I mean all of the people in this barony? If they haven't the wherewithall to keep records, they are obviously so incoherently random that they are prime for overthrowing. Roll on the Barbarians getting their birthright and beating us all to a pulp.
3) How can you be agreeing to this if you feel that overly defining who peopole are and what they do is wrong? When I said I wanted the world to carry on, I didn't mean for everyone to stand still and breathe, I meant for everyone to carry on.
4) It was a book parody that was released while the film is playing at cinemas. Do you honestly expect me to believe that the film being new didn't have anything to do with it? You do have a low opinion of me...
This was not so much a stab at you, as at every non-original plotline that comes into larp - and you've already said that you like parody larps, so we're always going to disagree on this point.
5) However, if I suggest something, and Pete suggests something different, I'd bet gold to grease that I would be the one people were apologising to. Having run larps cements you above others who have been here as long as you, but someone who has run fifty larps and been here for three years would net get the same level of trust as someone who has run forty over eight.

And if I bring out a different insignia, people will see me once again trying to define their world by having one in the first place - and I'll get told I shouldn't.

I don't see why they should bother getting a campaign overview written - unless it's by someone who has been here a long time, then everyone will naturally accept it. I doubt I'll be around to care.

What's missing from the history of the world is who set it up (names), how it was done, what kind of timescale it was done in, what the main cities were called, how they came to be built, how diplomacy went during their building, what happened in the point-to-point races fifty years ago, who the most famous traveller in the history of the Temple of Freedom is, who was the greatest sword in the Kingdom thirty years ago, who was the worst Gladiator evar, what Juilin did in order to gain the blessing of Errolisi & Mithaniel Marr - and that's just off the top of my head in five minutes.

I miss the fact that I cannot define my world without someone else saying I am defining theirs. I miss the fact that I don't know how, where or when Juilin grew up, because the world is not in place for me to have done so, and so whenever I make a reference to my history, I am just waiting for someone listening in to pipe up and say "I'd really rather you didn't say you'd done that, because..."
I can't claim to have a history for fear of offending everyone else. I don't like playing a character with only two dimensions who can't talk about themselves. I might as well bring a set of dice to a larp and roll out what I do instead.

I live in a house with Tim, and he tells me how he's going to change character classes three times over the course of twenty levels in order to do this, that and the other.
I don't do that. I just don't see some of my characters progressing as much as others because I don't see anywhere they can go. The only character I can now see getting near high level is Nimbus, because he doesn't need to have too much backstory. Juilin has no history i.e. he has nothing to make a future out of. Daenaram was going to have a wonderful future, but he died. Vaexarius had a detailed backplot that didn't get in anyone else's way, that I was promised would turn into side plot during a couple of games. He died too.
The only way I know I can play a character that will last is if I play guard spod in walking tank armour, who never does anything, says anything or claims anything that might have anythng to do with anything else whatsoever. If I don't commit suicide from boredom, that is. I find Juilin boring to play, because I'm being so careful not to define anything. It's desperately dry and I don't have a great deal of fun.

If I come out wearing something other than the Tree as an insignia, people will think I'm being a sourpuss. Plus, they will think I am trying to convert them/define them/do my own thing (God forbid). Ergo, he's coming out with mothing. I'll very happily buy one of them, just don't expect me to wear it.

I sat and wrote a story because no-one told me I couldn't. Indeed, everyone sat there idle and probably pointed at laughed, including the GM who should have been doing his job and paying attention. Instead, he waited for three months then waded in and told me to fuck off. Had he said it right at the start, I would have gone somewhere else and those with no inclination to care (i.e. everyone else) wuld have been spared it and I could go off and do my own little thing somewhere the important people wouldn't have to worry about it.

I find playing my characters boring, because of everyone else's desperate desire to be freeform contraining me utterly into doing things I don't want to do. I understand that larp is not always fun, and calls for people to occasionally do things that are difficult, hurtful and a general pain the ass, but I feel as though I'm in solitary confinement at the hands of you people. I can't do anything for fear of others asking me not to afterwards, because there are no rules to say I can't beforehand.

In short, I currently find playing larps to be anything but enjoyable, ergo something has gone wrong.

I didn't say that.

You can come from anywhere! Torn exists because I say it does! No one needs so much of the Barony that you or I can't have a piece to make our own! Names occur more than once - perhaps Torn is the name of a famous hero who travelled - we realise we've used the same name, get together, take five minutes creating the hero and bingo. We have a link between our characters to roleplay around. Or it's just a coincidence - a common word, a name for something familiar. I grew up in Coombe House. Do you know how many Coombe streets, Combe Streets, Coombe Roads, Coombe Houses, etc there are? I see them everywhere.

The thing is, I know from my experience of you that if you made a map of the Barony, then if Torn wasn't on it, there wouldn't be room for Torn. But I want to create it - now I can't. So every character I ever have will probably come from outside the Barony after that.

And your right - there are a hundred ways to get around any restriction of background from your NPC backgrounds, which is why I didn't even notice the supposed restrictiveness of them until people started shouting on the boards. All I can say is people should have more imagination when bending what has already been said... but that kind of comment makes people think I'm twinking instead of creating enjoyment for myself that doesn't impinge on others.

In case I've misrepresented myself, I fully support the npcs you crafted, continue to use Tobin and don't see the problem as a real problem. But there we go - I'm no longer in a position to push that, as you so artfully point out.

Did you know PaulW is dyslexic? He's also highly creative and has created in TL.

However, a lot of dyslexic people, not making any comment on Paul either way, are very worried about how people perceive their writing and similar. They have to have the confidence to write that and show it to others, or risk having others see it. That's a lot to demand of someone moving into a new social group.

====

1) Make up the reports of old ToF members! Read them for your own pleasure. Publish them here or send them to Marcus and let him publish them as he's the untouchable golden boy.
However, remember, with every one you put out where others can see it, you're losing a lrp plot you just wrote - an opportunity for everyone to live a new experience together and have fun. Surely it's better to GM?

Sounds fabulous, and I am simply green with envy.
And while I know you're perfectly capable of doing this yourself, here are some links to sites that seem to sell football tickets: stubhub nfl tickets and 49ers tickets basically because I have staff in today, and was bored :)

Am not going to give my oppinions on the discussion below, as I'm not a larper, except to say that, from my outsiders perspective I can see your point, and perhaps cam is an option you'd be interested in exploring.

I hadn't noticed - I think that is the best comment I can make about that. It also proves the point I was disagreeing with Dave about - do you think there is anyone in this club (regardless of race, age, gender, social demographic, stutter or dyslexia), anyone at all, without the creative flair to come up with two thousand words of backstory for a character if given the time?

Not looking for names - just a yes or no. I suggest that currently, there is no-one who couldn't do it, and it would entivce me rather than repel me if I was new to the club. If I had to create the character background, I can see myself missing lectures, food and sleep to get it just the way I wanted it.

And to the subject of GMing - you have got to be joking. You are joking, right? After the rubbishing of everything I create, you want me to try to force my plot ideas on people? Ha. Ha. Ha.

I will be marshalling someone else's monsters, plot and stats in the near future, and will never go any further than that. Ever.

Then I trained to be a Freedom priest the way I say I did! Tobin trained in the way he did! Freedom Priest no. 2746, passed out as full priest in October 2011, trained in the way he did!

No, wait, can't have it like that, because for some reason, other people seem to think they have to do it the same way as well.

Incidentally, those people being the ones who don't write backstories for their characters, so I could codify that everyone on the planet at greens three times a day and only a select few would ever have the need to care.

I avoid the TL boards with a vengeance as, unlike back in my day, they always seem to devolve into one person bitching at another. That, obviously, doesn't mean that I'm not interested in what the current batch of TLers publish elsewhere, like here.

That said there is a long-standing LRP convention for linear-style LRP systems such as TL that unless backplot exists from the start you are playing with a clean slate with year 1 of history ostensibly being the first year that the games was played. It's not the best scenario but it does allow for the fact the it's a University game, run by students (and Marcus) for students (and Marcus). The people who run the game move on (or fade aways slowly) and things grow. At any one time there is only one group of people who can set the precedent for world events and that group is the rules writer and current plot team. Everyone else has always had the free reign to come up with their personal background providing that it doesn't force world events or tamper with another character's background/situation. This has never stopped groups of players making linked characters, or finding mutually compatible backgrounds and expanding on them.

<deep breath>

Now, instead of blathering I will respond to your questions with answers (or further questions of my own), that being said I only disagree with one thing you've said, "...things I feel I need in order to roleplay better..." It is quite a big thing however but I fear I may be being a pedant:

Who is going to write this and maintain it?* Most people involved have jobs/degrees/lives to lead and this is a big job to start from scratch.
A current map would be good but would by the OOC limitations of the game be a purely IC map with grey areas and descrepancies to allow for an ever expanding plot sequence. A set of maps for the past twenty years?!? Crikey that's harsh, you want twenty years of story and then (we'll allow for one map per year) twenty maps to show how those stories affected the Barony? I'm afraid this next question is going to get very boring:
Who is going to write this and maintain it?*
This is your best question, a fleshed out character only needs one paragraph of description to make it more real than a min/maxed elven druid scout who is a combat womble in fun fur. My only point in addition to this would be that because you (sadly not "we" until I can get back to play again) are playing an heroic progression linear system and there a quite a number of people who play it for the hack and slash, or who are simply incapable of actually roleplaying very well. Too busy to flesh out a character is no excuse, because if you have time to play, you have time to sit on the bus on the way to campus and write a paragraph.

And to continue your second want list:

This touches on your previous points, make as much character history as you want for yourself without defining world events; get together with anyone else who wants to and make linked history; submit world changing history "created" by you to help define your character and submit it to the current plot team for validation and once you're all happy have it put in as official public history.
Who is going to write this and maintain it?* See the above reply regarding twenty years of local history.
You're right and yet also wrong, in my personal opinion here. due to the heroic nature of the TL game almost everyone has a tectonic-plate-sized ego regarding their characters. It's not everyone but I'm generalising here. That's down to the plot team to write stories that are continuous but at the same time have actions that occur while the characters are off polishing their helmets or something.
I trust that you'll relent and still submit for plot/to run events etc for the society. By it's very nature the game is written and changed by an ex-member who allows people to play it, it's (supposed to be) run by the most proactive society members (usually the longest serving). Want to change something? Get a committee position and change it. TL has a long-running tradition of parody/fun LRPs as a special event, not the norm but everyone should have the chance to prove that they too can run a plot, though preferably assisted by an experienced LRP GM for at least their first one.
This is an issue I know nothing about except what I can infer from other comments here: dave made "patrolee" badges and they became accepted as the norm IC and OOC. I would have though, had one of your characters worn completely different insignia that it should be noticed and commented on IC, which promotes roleplay and is something you've let yourself in for. If you then also get OOC comments, so what? Simply ask them to find out in-character (providing your reason isn't because the Barony has a massive rival to the "patrolee" groups and this is the first that the plot team have heard of any such organisation). Nepostism is a bad thing and we all do it in one degree or another, simply because there are people we trust to get things done in a fashion we're used to because we've been friends with them a long time.

I hope you don't mind my commenting (aka. Going on for ages) here, I remember my time in Bath and TL in particular fondly and hate the idea that it may end up with cheating players/gross nepotism/disgruntled players/twinkers etc and am still tryngi to work out when I can get back for 36 hour events and the like. If my response here is not something you like, feel free to delete it without any rancour being incured on my part.

On a lighter note, good luck in SF.

Absolutely! No one that I'm aware of has batted an eye lid at any part of Juilin's background, or of Vaexarius's background - which was really way out there. They were PCs and can't set things in stone for other PCs (and there's a warning there for James for when I decide to play a Barbarian and make up my own clan). Daenaram only created upset because his background contradicts some of the few campaign facts - otherwise no one has any real issue with it, evidenced by how fast people moved on to other discussion when it was released.

The problem with Tobin's background is that it's general and is placed in a position of predominance over the players. When the Committee present the approved commanding NPCs and their background states that all the guilds, everywhere in the Barony, recruit people as if they were universities, even the Temple of Might campaigning for students like everyone else, then that suddenly gains officialdom status. It's the generalisation of the statements which create the problem.

If Tobin's background stated that he grew up in the town of Torn, where the presiding Lord was heavily Freedom aligned and had ordered, erm, requested in strong terms, all Guilds within that town to respect the rights of his subjects and ask them to join, then that doesn't state anything about how Seeker Harold Cumberland got to where he is today, or indeed about how Master Sarevok did. If Rich wanted, Sarevok could have been clubbed round the head in a back alley at age six and dragged in by a recruiting/enslavement of homeless orphans party, but now there's this thing saying he must have petitioned to join the Temple of Might voluntarily, at age of adulthood.

That's what's got people so riled up - it was the level of official approval, suddenly stamped out by people that others didn't trust to make that decision.

It's like your posting Daenaram's backplot and immediately stating that it had committee approval as being non-harming to anything. The assumption is that the committee's approval gives it official strength, which it does, to a degree. Yet that rolls on into everything else and when Dom finds that the committee line is revealed for the year, telling him his character can't be played after he's already played him once and invested in plate armour for him then Dom gets upset. And so do other people.

The problem comes when people aren't given the choice to care or not.

And that's where the symbols get through and the npc backgrounds don't. Nowhere does it state the npc background stuff is optional. Everywhere does it state that the symbol stuff is optional.

You and I could come up with a map of the Barony and post it on a website and post links to it on the Blades boards, saying "Hey, we came up with this which matches what we know of to date, as a potential map of the Barony. As usual for the style of time period (feudal) the map doubtless has errors that will be discovered with time, however if people felt like using it as an aid, we'd be happy to add anything we can and juggle things around to give people a world to look at. Of course, it's all strictly for fun, so please don't harrass us if you don't like the idea of any kind of map at all." A few people would mutter in corners about it existing, but they wouldn't have to use it. And a few people are muttering in corners about the symbols, so that's par for the course.

The reason no-one has batted their eyes at Juilin's background is because I haven't given him one - it's too much hassle to spend the time and effort creating it only to have it shot down in flames.

Nowhere in the NPC plots does it state that the various entities campaign for students on a multilateral basis. In some cases it states that someone was out looking for recruits, but at no point does it say that this is the only line the temple takes. It was the perogative of Tobin's parents to show him everywhere. The temples, colleges and military arms all viewed this differently (and I didn't say how they viewed it, so make of it what you will). Tobin saw it like a university open day thing. No-one else did.

Might priests do not have to petition for entry to the temple. Where does it say that?
Read again how Fornax came to be a priest - his parents were slaughtered and he was lucky enough to run into a passing High Master on the lookout for souls to steal. This predatory manner seemed a good way of finding might priests, and while I would imagine that the temple does not use it officially, it would hardly complain at some of its members taking matters into their own hands.

I was not aware that Dom was told that Cumberland could not be played. I do not see why, given the NPC structure for this year, why he was told that. However, I'm just a writer for the committee. It would, however, explain why he poured so much scorn over them when they came out.

I maintain that using other insignia will be viewed as being different for the sake of it i.e. people will quietly feel that it should be official.

The committee okayed what was written for Daenaram's history because the Marshal makes it very clear that he cannot confirm what was being said. I don't know how much more vague and incoherent I can make it.

Once again, in order that people who couldn't care two hoots one way or another get not to care about anything, as someone who does I am forced into a tiny little box that I can't touch anything on the outside of? Marvellous. I like that set up.

yes. i actually do believe we have people in the club incapable of writing 2000 words of their characters back plot. For some of us it would be a boring, unnessary task, especially when we are still getting a feel for the character in our heads, let alone on paper. I can name names.

Not all people are creative in the same way.

Newbies. New to university, new to university and to encourage these eager minds into LARP, you want to give them a 2000 word essay in their first week? some might thrive. they might even be the better roleplayers. but some wouldn't.

better to ask them 20 questions so that they roughly know where their character is coming from, attitude and social group wise. Better still to ask them to submit some sort of full character background after a year of playing. Then, if the player is going to continue the character to higher level larps, it can be rounded out.
That would allow players who prefer to improvise with their character, rather than pre-formed complete backgrounds.

First, I spoke out of turn for Dom with inexactness. I believe that is simply how he felt rather than that he was told Cumberland couldn't have that background. I should not have stated the example as I do not have exactness.

Second, I'm sorry, I really am, but I can't resist - Juilin doesn't have a background written? No one can tell the difference.

Cam? I'm afraid you've lost me - is that live or tabletop?

Not true. At least one person can.

Me.

I'm not having any fun playing someone so utterly inert. This is in stark contrast to the fun I had playing Daen and Vaex, which were crawling with backstory.

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Because Dom Asked So Nicely...

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